Between the fight over AI, shifting geopolitics reigniting old conflicts, an overly-centralized technology industry, a lack of meaningful innovation from a consumer perspective, and the immense precarity of modern work in general, it feels like we’re at the start of the end of a cycle.
I’m noticing more people taking stock of what’s actually important to them and taking a stand on their values. This is good in the long run, but in the immediate it results in a lot of binary/black-and-white decision-making that results in dustups and conflicts between groups who would normally be allied behind common goals.
All of this is to say that I expect we’ll see many, many, many more of these types of posts in the future, as everyone remembers they can choose to shape their engagement with technology, and that naturally includes the right to disconnect from it - not out of any sort of anti-technology position itself, necessarily, but simply from realizing that a specific thing isn’t something they need or are interested in, and that’s okay.
Props to the author for being so clear about their engagement with social media, their background, and their thought process. If it encourages more folks to reassess their own relationship with social media (or any technology), I’m all for it.
People with their own name as the domain posting with a clearly technical background are hardly representative of the general populace. Most people are completely enthralled by social media and use it uncritically for most day-to-day interactions. I wouldn't hesitate to argue that they live their lives through something like tiktok or facebook messenger.
We're not so isolated from normal every day people that noticing trends within ourselves and other people like us have zero chance of bleeding into the mainstream. I too have begun limiting my usage of social media to basically zero, and I'm not so naive to think that I'm a trendsetter anymore rather I am responding to already occurring trends.
I remember what these social media platforms used to be like. They didn't consume my entire life because I was just checking in on my friends. I looked at my screen time recently and decided enough was enough, and deleted everything. Now I only look at my phone if I have an actual reason to. I don't think I'm the only person this is going to happen to.
> too have begun limiting my usage of social media to basically zero
Just delete your accounts. Trust me you’ll feel much better. If your usage is truly basically zero there is no need to keep having an account. Break it off completely.
My sister often only sends updates about her kids on Facebook, so I have to visit once in a while. Most of what is there is garbage I'm better off without (and those posting/sharing would be better off if they got a life), but there are some things that are useful.
You don’t need the updates. It’s better to find those out in person or just not even find out about them. We are obsessed as a society with FOMO but the truth is, you’re not really missing out on much, even for so-called important family events.
That seems like a strange judgement to make for another person. While I agree that it’s typically better to get updates in person, it may be very difficult to do so based on their circumstances. And judging the importance of someone else’s family events feels even more inappropriate.
I’m not judging - I’m just stripping away the excuses. “Oh I just use social media for XYZ” ok so does everyone else who uses it for whatever random purposes that other people want to judge them for. People had great, meaningful relationships before social media.
You are in fact expressing judgement, and your comments are getting more judgemental as the thread goes on. This is the excuse people always use to portray their feelings and judgements as objective "uncomfortable truths".
Ok I’m expressing judgement then.
Now that I’m expressing judgement, I stand by my judgements.
That was quick. You are haranguing this person for not upholding your standards of social media use while failing to hold yourself to a standard of intellectual honesty.
Maybe it just takes an addict to know one?
When people think things are deeply true of themselves it can be very, very difficult for them to see when it isn't true of others. Especially if there's an embarrassing or shameful element.
People (and kids) were a hell of a lot more interesting the longer you didnt see them.
Pictures on social media counts as interaction but its very limited. You still get to feel like you see them regularly.
You get your desired social interaction but it is arguably fake. Then we stick a display on your mums forehead and rotate advertisements. Not offensive at all.
You get your desired fake soical interaction fix therefore, when you finally meet the person irl (after say a year) you can both look at your phone the whole time because you "interact" with them every day. There is no need to tell stories or go do something.
Alternatively, when someone understands a deep truth it can be easy for them to cut through the excuses others use to hide that truth from themselves or others.
Sure can, but when you refuse to entertain alternative hypothesis or respond to evidence, you're just building a cage to protect yourself from nuance or from recalibrating your views slightly.
The evidence provided wasn’t sufficient to me, nor is it anything I haven’t heard from dozens of other people both online and real life.
You’re free to disagree, hop on and Tweet a picture of it or whatever, but you should at least have respect enough for yourself to acknowledge that in matters such as this others can have genuine differences of opinion and be dogmatic about them, and have thought through such matters at least as much or maybe more than you yourself have.
Like I said before, I deleted my accounts, I'm not on Twitter.
> [You] should at least have respect enough for yourself to acknowledge that in matters such as this others can have genuine differences of opinion...
Physician, heal thyself.
Bsky/Twitter, same thing but with different marketing.
> Physician, heal thyself.
What opinion did you provide? As far as I can tell you started with this whole nonsense about judging others. Did you lose track of the conversation or do quips like this make you feel good about yourself?
See what social media is doing to you?
I don't have Bluesky. I already told you twice I deleted my accounts.
> See what social media is doing to you?
I can see that you imagine I'm in some kind of torment nexus, but again, you're bringing your biases and preconceptions into this discussion and not listening to what people are saying, so you end up boxing shadows.
Sorry, my fault I genuinely must have confused you with someone else.
Though my general statement I think still stands regarding Blue Sky. That’s another damn cesspool.
> I can see that you imagine I'm in some kind of torment nexus, but again, you're bringing your biases and preconceptions into this discussion and not listening to what people are saying, so you end up boxing shadows
Hmm I must be imaging the comments you wrote calling me these things then.
I get it, when things get heated everyone you're talking to blends together. I tried my best not to be insulting or to piss you off, but to the extent I did I apologize.
It’s just words on the Internet - none of it matters. I think it’s kind of fun to trade barbs sometimes even if that’s not really useful.
Ok I admit it - even I have found a use for social media. To pointlessly argue with folks!
I live several hundred miles from my sister. In-person events are rare things that need planning ahead. Sure I could not find out about events, but I'm better off because I can: when I do get a chance to visit I have an idea what has been going on and thus what to talk about.
Why do you need to have an idea about what’s going on? You could just ask and then talk about it. You’re using social media to skip the initial asking part, but you don’t need to do that.
I can tell you this works because I do it. You’re not missing anything. If you don’t communicate much because of distance either the relationship isn’t that important - so you’re lying to yourself about it, or you should move and live closer together.
You will have deeper and better conversations if you know what questions to ask.
Things that work for you might not work for others. Communication and connection is a need, not a vice.
The idea that you can tell them that their relationships aren't important is so chauvinistic and inappropriate. You ought to take a step back and reflect before commenting further, that's out of line.
You’ll have even deeper connections if you have more things to talk about and genuine curiosity about the novelty of those things instead of “already knowing the questions to ask” - good lord are we robots or something?
> The idea that you can tell them that their relationships aren't important is so chauvinistic and inappropriate. You ought to take a step back and reflect before commenting further, that's out of line.
Save this stuff for someone who cares because it’s not me.
There is no evidence their curiosity is ingenuine, that's your image of them but it doesn't have a basis in reality. It's based in your biases and preconceptions about social media.
I'll refrain from criticizing you for being a chauvinist if you agree to take that behavior someplace else, because it's not for this community. Save that for some toxic no-holds-barred social media. Maybe think on whether your actions are contributing to the social media environment you decry.
> I'll refrain from criticizing your for being a chauvinist if you agree to take that behavior someplace else, because it's not for this community. Save that for some toxic no-holds-barred community like Twitter.
No thanks. You don’t get to define what is toxic behavior nor do you speak for this community or others.
Also, grab a dictionary. Your usage of chauvinist here is incorrect.
> There is no evidence their curiosity is ingenuine, that's your image of them but it doesn't have a basis in reality.
They already said they need information about events to have something to talk about. That’s not how conversations work, nor is it how you establish new friendships or build and maintain existing relationships.
> It's based in your biases and preconceptions about social media.
Well they are biases (yours is showing) but they’re not preconceptions, they are just conceptions.
You don't get to define your behavior as nontoxic, either. I'm not arguing about what words mean.
I didn’t define my behavior one way or another. I said I don’t care what you think about it.
I don't believe you, but it doesn't really matter. (I'm happy to admit I have a small investment in helping you see my perspective, for what it's worth. It's part of my human need for connection.)
Why would I care about your opinion of me? If I recall from the thread so far it consists of being chauvinist and toxic. That’s no different than some random person yelling at me from across the street while out walking my dog or something.
Just looking out for you and for the community. If I was being a chauvinist I would want someone to tell me. If someone was being a chauvinist to me I would want someone to say something.
I'm not attacking you, I'm giving you feedback. I'm being as neutral and uninsulting as I can be.
You’re misusing the word chauvinist here or rather if you think you’re not can you please explain what the word means? I don’t understand your usage of it in this context.
> If someone was being a chauvinist to me I would want someone to say something.
On the flip side you’re being condescending toward others, “giving feedback”? C’mon. You know it’s good practice to not give advice to those who don’t ask for it, right?
When someone does something inappropriate, you tell them so as politely as possible. Just like if someone's shoe is untied or has toilet paper on it, you let them know. No one needs to ask, those are the table stakes.
(I would also point out that this thread started because you were offering unsolicited advice about using social media. I could be wrong but it seems to me like you think it's appropriate to offer someone advice unsolicited if you have a perspective that's able to see through their "excuses".)
This was the closest definition to my usage I found (American Heritage #4):
What I meant was that you were insisting your subjective viewpoint was the only one that was valid. Other viewpoints you reduced to "excuses."I can see how it comes off condescending, and I apologize for it. There's a paternalistic element to telling someone they've done something inappropriate, and that should be reduced as much as possible, but I don't think it can stop us from saying something altogether.
What a weird comment. I'm glad my relatives aren't like you.
What a weird comment. I'm glad my relatives aren't like you. Your irrational hatred of social media is distorting your views.
If you got rid of social media tomorrow, completely, the world would be better. No doubt in my mind about that. It’s not irrational, I have seen first hand the destruction it causes.
Maybe you should ask yourself why you’re so upset that someone says to delete it? Does it cut too close to the truth?
True, but that is because there are bad parts of social media that we would also lose. The real question is how can we get rid of the bad parts of social media so we can keep the good? (I do not have an answer which is why I only check a few times per month)
The good parts of social media is basically Facebook's feature set in 2007 or so. Everything since then has been in the interest of increasing addiction and monetization. Unfortunately 95+% of Facebook's valuation is due to those bad parts, so I don't see a way back.
I've deleted my accounts too (HN obviously notwithstanding) but telling people they should disengage with their family because they don't need that information is patronizing and undermines your point. They get to decide what they need.
... yet I respectfully think the above point still stands, "people need not get even that family info via Zuck's brain-grinder".-
You need not get that information. Other people have different needs and priorities. What if the reason they are so concerned about getting updates on this kid is that they have serious medical issues? What if it brings a ray of sunshine on stressful days to see pictures of them? What if missing these updates means missing family functions and becoming more isolated and lonely? (Note that they confirmed my last speculation.)
What if, instead of berating people for using social media, we discussed how we might build a healthier alternative?
> What if, instead of berating people for using social media, we discussed how we might build a healthier alternative?
Why do we need to build one? Before the internet, we had letters and memos. The Email and IM came. The reason to have a feed is to share things, it shouldn't be for people to come consuming it. And there's no reason for it to be social. To have a special feed that mix everything from everyone on the platform according to "the algorithm"
No need to build something else. Blogs, Email, and IM are still here.
> we discussed how we might build a healthier alternative?
Totally for that. We really need it.-
Welp, I ought to stand on business I suppose, I think social media communities are too big. I think it would be less toxic if we were balkanized into smaller communities, and interacted with people of unlike minds in a more considered and intentional way. As it is, it becomes a free for all for dunking on people. Small communities of like minds can become too insular, ideas need to be challenged, but they also need space to grow and develop in a friendly environment.
Wherein the balance, eh? Though nut to crack.-
I already have lol. I still use bluesky occasionally on my computer. That's what I mean by "basically zero"
All you’ve done is basically switch from drinking beer, wine, and liquor to only drinking gin.
So I’m drinking less?
I'd say it's more like switching from bottom shelf, burn your throat vodka to a nice white wine.
From an addicts POV it’s no different, maybe worse because you are deluding yourself about the other aspects to make you feel like your addiction is ok.
Also, Blue Sky generally sucks. It’s another awful echo chamber.
Great way to make your point, telling people they’re addicts. That’ll change my mind.
Gin doesn't smell.
She's not a programmer. She's an author of a book on health issues explaining why social media failed her as a marketing tool. She's probably still not representative of the general population, but she gives an interesting window into a community that is expected to use social media a lot.
It's tough to be an author. Publishers and retailers will only put major marketing efforts behind new books from authors who are already popular. Before social media, less popular authors had to try to market their own books through interviews on radio and TV but most authors weren't good at that either. So I don't think that social media has necessarily made things any worse, just different.
Parent didn't mention she was a programmer
> People with their own name as the domain
You know that buying a domain and setting up a few pages is something you can hire someone to do for you, right? And that it's a thing people often do if they want to engage in public relations, such as if they had a book coming out that they want people to buy.
> You know that buying a domain and setting up a few pages is something you can hire someone to do for you, right?
And yet the vast majority of the population doesn't do it, because they don't need it when they're perfectly happy with mainstream social media, which is the point.
The vast majority of the population doesn't do most individual things you could possibly name. There's a vanishingly small set of things you could name that the vast majority of people do without over-generalizing. That doesn't necessarily make them niche.
Most people work, but most people aren't a programmer/barber/chef/construction worker/farmer/etc. Most people listen to music, but most people don't actively listen to <insert any artist below top 100 or so>. Most people use some form of computer daily/weekly, but most people aren't visiting reddit every day, or HN, or a specific youtube channel. Most people aren't a small business owner, but small business owners aren't a niche thing, they are a cornerstone part of the economy.
Add all of these "not mainstream" activity participating people together, and suddenly you have most of the population.
That doesn't change the message though: social media is not a great way to get attention. If you are social on social media with your friends (including online only friends) that is very different from on social media to get people to your business.
You nailed it. However, it is good to see more people waking up from the contrived nightmare that is social media.
Yes!
I am using old nokia phone for 3 months now, I am not going back to my iphone. (means no whatsapp, banking, uber, reddit, hn, whatever)
It took almost 1 week to get rid of the cravings "I am slightly bored, I *MUST* look at my phone"
Now, I am just bored, I had forgotten how nice it is to be bored, I just stare at things, poke something with a stick, look for patterns, ask questions, have ideas.. etc; when I have a meeting and the other person doesn't show up on time, I just watch the world and wait.
I also noticed I can watch movies properly, I have more patience, I dont look at my phone at the first "less exciting" moment. It is really nice especially for things like Star Trek where they have not algorithmically optimized every frame to keep you engaged because they were not competing with instagram for your attention.
I even bought a walkman. When the song is not very good, I just wait it out. Very quickly I got my sense of time back, just after few days I can measure time in 'songs' or 'cassette sides'.
I have also blocked all socials except hn on my local pihole.
If you survive the first week of cravings after that it gets nicer every day!
Some people say I am doing those things because of "nostalgia" but this is incorrect, I just want to be able to be bored.
That’s excellent to hear! Alas, I have not gotten to the point of replacing my iPhone (being in IT means I’ve long been married to a smartphone of some variety), but I’m with you on a lot of the above. For example:
> I also noticed I can watch movies properly, I have more patience, I dont look at my phone at the first "less exciting" moment.
I’ve started leaving my phone in the bedroom when I’m playing games or watching movies in the Living Room. It’s a PITA to extract myself from the sofa to retrieve it, and I find myself far more engrossed leaving it physically in a different space. The eventual goal is to have a designated “phone drop” for folks to drop the device on to charge that’s far away from living and sleeping areas, to further break that habit.
> I even bought a walkman.
Same! I turn off WiFi except for OS updates (it’s one of Sony’s new Android-based Walkmans), and have no streaming apps on it. It’s just my microSD card of music from my NAS, and it’s blissful. I need to use it more, but writing synchronization scripts has been a PITA.
> I just want to be able to be bored.
I’ll confess to using an “herbal” crutch for this of late, because of (diagnosed) OCD making it impossible to pause or stop on my own in most cases. Combined with an outdoor walk, I’ve developed a newfound appreciation for just laying on a bench and watching the clouds and planes go by in the sky, or watching cars on the highway. It’s helped me appreciate humanity more, forcing myself into a sort of bored observation of others instead of constantly rehearsing new work tasks, new project ideas, or new contingency plans.
More people need to be bored.
when hungry eat, when tired sleep; as the poet said, no need to rush
I also have severe ocd, maybe I should try the herb
PS: I am on call for 25 years, so far I have no issues because of no smartphone, opsgenie just calls me and then I get my laptop few minutes later
Hey, it's OK to use the fast forward button. Just because you want to hear Back in the USSR and While My Guitar Gently Weeps doesn't mean you have to sit through Ob-La-Di Ob-La-Da, it's not good for you like eating your vegetables. And it's not good to let things bore you, you're mixing up being bored with being patient, the distinction matters.
Edit: but if you have actual OCD as you say below, that puts a different slant on things.
I do use fast forward :) just not a lot, but also really like cassettes that two good songs happen to be on the opposite sides of each other.
I am using 'bored' quite loosely, I mean allow yourself to not be constantly engaged, the content creators, the algorithms, the advertisers all are trying to keep me at this extreme state so that I could be sold. The bar is really high, in order to be patient I had to re-learn how to not be engaged all the time. Some times I think of nothing, but most of the time I am having fun with stuff either real or not.
PS: yea I do have ocd, my bored or patient probably mean different things to other people
I think one thing to remember that is often forgotten is just how new all this is. Society is moving incredibly fast and that can be both good and bad. Even 10 years ago the way people interacted with technology would be unrecognizable today. 20 years ago is the distant pass. We sacrificed a generation of kids to figure this out and hopefully we will actually figure this all out, but we shouldn't be surprised that we've had seismic shifts in how technology is impacting our society and we didn't get it immediately right from the get go.
That’s something that still blows my mind, and gives me serious pause when I consider the impacts. Sure, I’ve been involved in technology and the internet since the mid-90s as an elementary schooler, but I’m the exception to the rule. In thirty short years we’ve gone from bank tellers to bank apps, from dreary Government buildings with long waiting times to poorly-designed websites that crash frequently, and from only being reachable via post or landline to never being unavailable unless you’re somewhere isolated and remote - and then building technology to bring connectivity into those areas as well.
In three decades computing went from a toy of the rich and tools of the biggest businesses to a “necessity” of the everyman, but without any formal training on usage, value, or feedback on boundaries. Thirty years to go from only nation states being able to effectively surveil people at scale, to any tech company with a magic pixel being able to gather far more and accurate data than anyone prior could hope to.
This has been a gargantuan shift in civilization in an impossibly short amount of time, and we’re only really just now agreeing that there’s some growing pains that need sorting out. Maybe most businesses don’t need cloud-based services for everything, maybe most humans don’t actually need public social media, and maybe some of the stuff we take for granted as necessary today are actually quite worthless to most people/entities.
Viewed through that lens, I also see the desperation of the AI movement to continue accelerating “advancement” forward, before more people start asking the same questions regarding necessity and importance of existing tools and technologies. Once people start questioning the utility of a purchase, they’re less likely to spend money on it - and there goes your business.
I want a social media website that barely ever notifies me, has no algorithmic feed, no ads and limits the amount of connections I can have to about the size of a large wedding party. Something like that would be for actual friends and family and would be useless for influencers, trolls and bots.
Bonus points if it doesn't have an app and is only a website.
This is basically Mastodon, but I think the mass appeal of that is limited given its distributed nature.
Mastadon is a more of a broadcast network with micro-blogging. It's got advantages over a place like twitter but not what I'm looking for. And having worked on decentralized social networking, I've turned off from it because it has a lot of ux, privacy and quality issues that are hard to solve.
Myspace or early Facebook is closer to what I'd want.
Digging into your clarifying comments further down, and what you’re describing isn’t social media but just a website people can post stuff on. Social media by its very nature is public, and when it’s public it becomes exploitable.
I do think there’s an opening for a “landing page” of sorts where invited persons can easily share photos and updates with one another (I’ve seen it in the Enterprise repeatedly, though it never gains traction) like the 2010-era Facebook you describe, but it’d have to be something you (or someone in your circles) hosts for everyone if you want the privacy and utility without the ads, spam, and miscreants.
Social media is defined in a lot of ways but what I'm talking about is defined by bi-directional connections between users and sharing within that verified graph.
Self-hosting is a non-starter but a service that charges a reasonable subscription fee could avoid the ads and dark patterns.
A non-profit model like Wikipedia plus low cost subscription would be ideal.
Path (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Path_(social_network) was ten years too early.
It's called a private group chat.
Come again? I don't want to be in a discord or WhatsApp chat, I want 2010 era Facebook. Those are different experiences and products.
I don't know what 2010 era Facebook is, but I'm talking about small SMS, iMessage, Signal, or WhatsApp groups among people who know each other outside the platform. These groups are no more than maybe 10 people each, so you don't fall into the problem of context collapse [1]. You can have offshoot subgroups, and groups can also be ad-hoc for a particular event. The personal small-scale nature means they're governed entirely by shared social norms, not algorithms or formal moderation.
If you want actual meaningful social interactions online, it needs to be small-scale and completely useless for advertisers. Group chats are that.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_collapse
Yeah the whole idea of public mass social media has basically failed thus far.
Maybe someone will create some enlightened LLM based algorithm that solves the engagement optimization problem but what we have now has proven to be pretty disastrous through many iterations.
Small scale group chats/discord servers are the clear solution right now. Which is sad in some ways because the question then becomes how do you find your way into a good group chat.
But it’s the only way for the sane to not be overwhelmed by the engagement farming, political nonsense, and what Noah Smith calls the “shouting class” of people that have nothing else to do in life but dominate these platforms by stirring up drama all day every day.
Yeah that's not really what I'm interested in. Chat is a very different thing.
Yes, an imessage group chat with a few close friends is the best social network IMO. I have two, one with me and some college buddies and another for my family.
> everyone remembers they can choose to shape their engagement with technology, and that naturally includes the right to disconnect from it
The thing that scares me the most about the times we are living in right now is that while I can choose how I shape my engagement with technology, I am still stuck living in a planet/country/society/democracy filled with people who may be making radically different choices and I still have to deal with the consequences of that.
It really doesn't matter that much if I figure out ways to avoid toxic disinformation when I'm outvoted by idiots who haven't. It doesn't matter that much if I spend less time staring at a screen so that I can spend more in-person time with people I care about when it's a grueling task getting anyone else to commit to hanging out because they are still enthralled by the glowing rectangle.
I'm doing my best to navigate this chaotic stressful time, but ultimately I share a boat with many many other people and have only my own tiny little oar.
I want an LLM that I control to sit between me and any social media feed. Let it filter the garbage and engagement-bait and boil it down to something that actually adds value to my life
If my roof leaks and my drip bucket is full, do I need a shinier bucket or a better roof?
Achievable goal! Bluesky lets you create your own moderation tools using whatever technologies you like. https://deepwiki.com/bluesky-social/bsky-docs/2.5-moderation...
I wrote a comment a bit ago on what this adversarial interoperability [1] could look like with local LLMs and accessibility APIs [2]. Big AT Proto and Bluesky fan, as it cannot be captured ("protocols, not platforms"), but it isn't enough to have this capability only with Bluesky; it must be able to support any social network or graph. It should be a robust content processor under the user's control for any firehose they wish to consume, whether that is a REST API endpoint, an RSS feed, a plain 'ol website that the agent will login as the user as, or a closed app that the agent will use accessibility APIs to operate the app as the user.
[1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/10/adversarial-interopera...
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42879342
That's not what the social media site wants. It has it's own algorithms and AI, ensuring that you get exactly what they need you to see.
You want an AI to sift though endless piles of crap, just to find the few specks of gold. Why not stop mixing your gold into the dung heap before consuming it?
I want to communicate with actual humans and enjoy meaningful conversation, 5-10 actual humans is enough really, I don't have a public-facing brand I need to maintain like the author. That's what social media is for and thus it's simply not for me.
I smell a business idea here.
[dead]
Similarly, I've been watching the rise of the "minimal phone", and "analog tech" with interest lately.
People have lost agency to the degree that they're looking to the very tech that stole their agency for answers, and I view that a sign that perhaps the push-back is actually beginning in earnest.
There's no push-back. Manifestos posted by a few members of the terminally online chattering class don't constitute any sort of real trend. I've yet to see anyone using a "minimal phone" (other than a few older people who might still have a working feature phone).
I still have a smartphone, but I barely have any apps on it. I literally have a handful of email apps and two weather apps and that's it.
So yeah, I have a smartphone, but I barely use it compared to how I used to use it even 5 years ago. By unplugging, I've found myself way more productive. I'm reading two or three books a month now. Its an amazing feeling knowing you can drive what you want to do instead of having social media driving your life, manipulating you into using it more and more and not feeling like you're in control.
I've essentially logged off and I really don't miss it. I feel like I can't be the only one.
> I feel like I can't be the only one.
You're not, but you're also not the majority. I'm continually surprised that people are still on Facebook. I get why they use Facebook Messenger, or Facebook Marketplace, but the actual Facebook "news" feed? Have you seen that, it's ads or ads disguised as content... How the hell that thing isn't dead i beyond me.
As an anecdatum, one of my gen Y embedded engineers is using a little stick phone that can barely text, and avoids all social media except Discord (assuming that counts). One of the other younger folk in a different department has something similar. And we've only got around 100 people in this building.
“I don’t see what you’re seeing and therefore your position is invalid” isn’t really the slam-dunk your tone suggests. I’m also seeing pushback and withdrawal from my own highly-technical circles as we come to terms with how much time and energy these things sap from us with little given in return, and decide to exert more agency as a result. Developers are retiring to work on farms, for crying out loud, suggesting there’s something deeply, intrinsically toxic about the state of things that the people with the most expertise are leaving the field for areas less glamorous or lower in compensation.
You might not be seeing it, but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
Nah. The "back to the land" movement is nothing new. Some office workers were trying to become farmers (and mostly failing) back in the 1970s when there were only a tiny number of developers. Again, complaints about the state of society by a few disaffected individuals are meaningless and highly technical circles aren't representative of the broader society. No matter how amazing everything is a few people are going to be unhappy. Nothing has changed.
https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/science/back-land-mo...
stego-tech is the equivalent of an anti-tech influencer ("zealot") on HN. Pretty much all they post about on here, and they post a lot on here, is about how tech is ethically bankrupt.
HN is big enough now imo that it's worth starting to tag users so you can know where they're coming from.
Yeah, I’ve been noticing the same. But let’s be honest, most people don’t really get to choose their relationship with tech. The whole analog tech and minimal phone thing sounds nice, but it’s still a luxury. You need a certain level of stability to even consider disengaging. So while I’m hopeful and happy to see those small changes, I’m also skeptical. Real change won’t happen until it stops being a lifestyle choice and becomes a bigger shift (or its part).
The problems with social media are partly network related. You may opt out, but those naked pictures or nasty comments about you are still up there, the division and polarization that social media causes is still there. Basically society is just as bad off as before you decided to opt out, and you can't opt out of society. This is one of those technologies that we shouldn't have invented (one of Bostrom's black balls), but once you invent it it's too late because the incentives make it too difficult to roll back.
> If it encourages more folks to reassess their own relationship with social media (or any technology), I’m all for it.
Great point, this.-