81 comments
  • varenc2d

    I had the privilege of taking Winston's communications/AI seminar class in college.

    It was an odd format. The class outwardly presented itself as a seminar class where you just read and discuss AI papers. Several of the papers involved doing mean things to ferrets. But really it was a writing/communication class with Winston giving you life advice. I remember one of his teachings was how to build and maintain your network (email them ~twice a year). And also before a big lecture you can warm up your voice by making a barking noise. He also brought donuts to most every class. I miss you professor Winston.

    • carver2d

      What a great seminar, that was. I really appreciated his advice on writing recommendation letters, too: the expectation is shifted wildly towards effusive. If you are plainly complimentary, it can come off as a secret warning that you don't think they are worth hiring.

      But there were also great AI papers, and meta advice on reading them efficiently. (I don't remember any crimes against ferrets, but presumably the reading list changed over time)

      I appreciated that class, and it's only grown on me over time. Another line that really stuck with me was something like "forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit" (Which I remembered as "Perhaps we will look back on even this with fondness") It's so easy to undervalue amazing things when they are happening to you. I was really convinced that I was appreciating it, even more than many around me. But I still look back and think I could have soaked it in, even more.

      • dnackoul1d

        I also took Professor Winston's seminar in college and have similar feelings about it. It was far and away my favorite class and the wisdom in his advice has only become more apparent over time. At its heart, it was really about how to understand and communicate ideas.

        One of the things I treasured the most was that Professor Winston overtly subscribed to the "make topics crystal clear and broadly accessible" school of technical communication. He would contrast this against the "make things incomprehensible so everyone thinks you're brilliant" school of thought. I am eternally grateful someone biased me early in life towards the former, not just when I'm speaking but when I'm choosing what to read and who to listen to.

        I've also wondered lately what he would think about the current LLM wave. I'm sure he would have had a characteristically clear and profound take. I feel the world is losing out not having his voice during the current moment.

        • varenc12h

          Absolutely! Thanks for bringing this up. I remember one of his points is that people have a tendency to hide behind obtuse language to try to make their insight seem more impressive. I think about this constantly when I see writing that clearly doesn't subscribe to this philosophy. (Especially Fine Art lectures)

      • devilbunny8h

        > "forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit"

        You quoted it correctly. It's from The Aeneid, and your translation is basically correct.

    • swayvil1d

      I've always considered you to be one of my most valuable assets.

    • delichon1d

      [flagged]

      • neilv1d

        I think the workplace concern is worth trying to improve. (Certainly, I've been in tech companies that encourage snacks consumption. Many people end up eating a lot more than they would otherwise, as they sit at their keyboards, with breaks that consist of walking to the snack room/cafeteria and back.)

        But regarding a particular person, I suppose that friends and family members don't want to be reading random Internet commenters' speculation about that person's health and passing.

        Maybe bring up the general problem in an HN post, with a link to an informative article?

      • jxckshit1d

        There’s no way you can confidently infer a metabolic syndrome by sight. And a donut once a week isn’t going to induce metabolic syndrome.

      • mtklein1d

        You're not wrong that he wasn't physically fit, but he was also one of the most human people many of us in this thread have ever met.

      • bongodongobob1d

        Incredibly inappropriate. You have 0 clue about anything regarding his medical history. Next time you want to attribute cause of death for someone from an anecdote, do everyone a favor and shut the fuck up.

        • delichon1d

          Please explain this to me, as I honestly don't understand it. I didn't claim knowledge, it's just speculation. I speculate about things all day long, why is this different? There really aren't many common conditions that look like Mr. Winston and I do. I'm just supposing horses instead of zebras.

          Just via the Golden Rule, I would be happy if someone used my own bad example (I have the same condition that I attribute to Prof. Winston) to make the argument personal, if that motivated someone to pick up the apple instead. We lose too many years to high blood pressure, obesity, high glucose, neuropathy, etc., etc., to shut up about the donuts.

          • monkeywork1d

            >I didn't claim knowledge, it's just speculation.

            "I can testify that is downstream of too many donuts."

            The above statement - specifically saying you TESTIFY - does not sound like speculation; it sounds like you are speaking as a matter of fact.

            I fail to see what if anything, positive you thought would come from that post? You're in a thread where people are mostly positively remembering someone they respected and you essentially jumped in and said "yeah but the guy killed himself with his eating".... like you really think that's a good idea?

            You might think you're doing some greater good - but there is a time and a place for everything - the message you're trying to send isn't going to land in this sort of environment, it's just going to piss people off and have you appear to be disrespectful.

            • delichon1d

              I can testify that metabolic disease is downstream of too many donuts. I earned it one bite at a time. Don't be like me, eat the whole food instead.

      • morninglight1d

        The late Patrick Henry Winston was well aware of his eating problems and wrote extensively about his very successful effort to reform them. He even stopped eating at his desk in an effort to lose weight. As part of his "General Patton Diet", he subsequently lost 60 lbs in 100 days.

        Before: http://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/pensees/welcomethen.jpg

        After: https://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/pensees/welcomenow.jpg

        "I learned to eat and drink veeeeeery slowly at the table meant for eating, not in front of my computer screen. I used to cram in a day's worth of calories in a few minutes, before my body had any idea I was eating anything, which experts say takes 20 minutes."

        https://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/index.html

        His description of the "General Patton Diet" is no longer on his website but may be archived somewhere.

        Here is a copy that I made when it appeared on his MIT webpages:

        The General Patton diet

        http://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/favorites.html

        Fall 2012, first day of class, 255 lbs

        Fall 2013, first day of class, 195 lbs

        My doctor said I had three choices: take blood pressure medication, lose weight, or drop dead. My wife said I had turned into a fat blob. After thinking about all that for a couple of years, I decided to lose weight.

        When I had tried to lose weight before, nothing worked. But I had never tried everything all at once. Many years ago, I watched “Patton,” and I think there was a scene in which he said with pride that he was attacking in all directions at once. So I decided to try what I call the General Patton diet, attacking in all directions at once.

        First, I quit drinking cream in my coffee. I drink a lot of coffee, and I used to drink it with a lot of cream, so with that, I cut back 400-500 calories per day. Black coffee tasted terrible for a week, but I got used to it, and now the idea of cream in my coffee seems disgusting.

        Then, I started exercising, almost daily—just fast walking and a little jogging at first, but then, around day 80, just jogging. Another 400-600 calories accounted for in my endorphin-generating exercise.

        So, exercise and a change in the way I drink coffee constituted a 1000 calorie swing every day.

        Then, I learned to eat and drink veeeeeery slowly at the table meant for eating, not in front of my computer screen. I used to cram in a day's worth of calories in a few minutes, before my body had any idea I was eating anything, which experts say takes 20 minutes.

        Then, I substitute fruit for hypoglycemic foods that take blood sugar on a roller coaster ride. I used to get so hungry by 5 pm I could eat my own hand. Now I eat apples instead of junk and the 5 pm problem has gone away.

        Then, the screwier things. Being interested in why we excel as a species, I note that fire is part of the explanation. Cooked food is partially digested before it goes in our mouth, so we can march more calories into our bodies in less time. That used to be a good thing, but isn't now, so I substitute raw fruits and vegetables for some of the cooked stuff I used to eat.

        Then, I lift dumbbells while my coffee is brewing, which means I exercise at least five times a day, albeit briefly. It doesn't consume a lot of calories, but it seems to keep my appetite down and maybe keeps my metabolism up.

        Then, I keep repeating to myself two quotes: from my friend Jay Keyser: “food is an addiction;” from Thomas Jefferson: “no man ever regretted eating too little.” Playing these quotes in my mind, I push away quite a lot of after-I-am-actually-satisfied food.

        So I attack in all directions at once.

        Of course what worked for one person doesn't work for another, and you really must talk to your doctor about whether what you are thinking of doing to lose weight is right for you.

        Anyway, all this happened over the summer, so many of my friends had not seen me for a while, but strangely few asked me if I had lost weight. I finally figured out why when I broached the subject with a friend, Scott Vanderhoof, from whom I buy my hardware, who himself had once lost a lot of weight.

        “Scott,” I said, “haven't you noticed that I have lost weight?”

        “On purpose?”

        “Yes, of course,” I said.

        Then, with a great sigh of relief, he explained that he hadn't said anything because he thought I must have contracted something terrible to lose 60 pounds in 100 days.

        25 September 2013 Epilog

        Now, Registration Day, 2014, has rolled and my weight is the same as a year ago.

        ---

        • delichon1d

          Thanks for these details. I have a lot of respect for these efforts. For some reason people seem to think I'm disrespecting this man. On the contrary, I just met him today in this video, and understand the protectiveness.

  • calmoo1d

    I watched this years ago and really enjoyed it. One of the main lessons I took from it is basically, have almost 0 text on your slides. You should not be reading your slides, the audience should not have to read your slides. The slides should supplement what you are speaking about, not vice versa.

    Any time I see a wall of text on a presentation, I know I can probably tune out and not miss much.

    • Aurornis1d

      This is great advice for the right context, but can be the wrong advice for different situations.

      If the slide deck is meant to be something that can be shared around and make sense without you, it needs to have a lot of text on the slides. Even putting it in the speaker notes doesn’t work.

      So make sure you know your audience and the context (also important presentation advice)

      • wanderingstan1d

        This is a case for their being two slide decks. Or rather, that slides can be used as a shareable graphic-heavy document OR as an aid to giving a talk, but the same deck can’t be good at both purposes at the same time.

        • Aurornis20h

          Sounds better in theory than in practice. Making two separate slide decks and then hopping everything makes sense when you share one after people expect the other isn’t good.

          If you have to serve both uses, text goes on the slides. If you’re primarily speaking then just include the speaker notes and hope it makes sense. If the slides will be shared primarily, text goes on the slides and you just deal with it while presenting.

          • inanutshellus18h

            Guys.

            Slide decks have a "NOTES" view.

            Put pretty pictures in the REAL view.

            Share it and they will read the NOTES view.

            Duh.

      • dghf18h

        > If the slide deck is meant to be something that can be shared around and make sense without you, it needs to have a lot of text on the slides.

        Then isn't that just a document? Why use a slide deck?

      • jimbokun1d

        Yes, but then your audience doesn't need you to give the talk.

      • latexr1d

        Counter examples:

        https://web.archive.org/web/20161223041152/https://idlewords...

        https://boringtechnology.club/

        Those talks don’t have too much text on slides, yet they can still be shared as text by including the speaker’s script aligned with each slide. They also have online video versions for comparison.

      • oe1d

        If you need to share the idea of the talk using just the slides then that’s a totally different problem. You shouldn’t make the slides worse for people who can attend the talk.

      • triceratops18h

        Use skippable slides with the supplementary content?

    • neilv1d

      One downside to not having much text on your slides is that the slides alone are then not as useful as a reference to attendees later.

      When I do low-text slides anyway, sometimes I've used the "notes" field of the presentation program to write out complete text of a version of the speech, for my eyes only. Then I don't read the notes while presenting, but I've gone through that writing exercise, to think through the content and presentation more rigorously than is necessary to slap some headings on slides.

      • justinhj19h

        People have many options if they missed the talk. Read the transcript along with the slides, watch the talk recording, have ai summarize the talk...

        I'd rather the talk was interesting and entertaining for the audience than present a slide deck of bullet points

    • IshKebab22h

      > have almost 0 text on your slides

      I don't think this is good advice. What you should actually do is not just read out the slide. The slide isn't your autocue.

      It's fine to have text on a slide if you are talking about that text. For example you might be analysing some code, or writing techniques or whatever.

      Honestly it's really obvious if you've ever watched any presentations in your life... but people still do it because it feels a lot easier.

    • busyant1d

      Someone told me something similar once:

      When giving a talk, your slides are not "the show." YOU are the show.

      • potency1d

        But I don't wanna be the show. :(

        • andrei_says_1d

          I think it’s the story that’s the show. Not the slides not only the storyteller.

          But also the storyteller and also the slides.

          Every TED speaker is coached to start with a personal story.

        • jimbokun1d

          Then why are you giving a talk?

      • kmoser1d

        At 27:50, he relays a story about a grad student who did an experiment to see what the audience retained better: the slides, or the presenter's words. It seems the slides won out. So apparently the slides are the star of the show, whether you like it or not.

        • jimbokun1d

          But if the slides are very sparse, it make YOU the star of the show.

  • dang1d

    Related, but I thought there had been larger threads - anyone?

    How to Speak [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39670484 - March 2024 (2 comments)

    How to Speak - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31489765 - May 2022 (2 comments)

    How to Speak (MIT OCW) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30046076 - Jan 2022 (1 comment)

    How to speak (2018) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23878328 - July 2020 (5 comments)

    How to Speak by Patrick Winston - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23570443 - June 2020 (1 comment)

    How to Speak (2018) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22848034 - April 2020 (43 comments)

    Also related:

    Patrick Winston has died - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20482768 - July 2019 (81 comments)

  • jll292d

    I never met Winston when he was still alive, sadly, but I first encountered his work when I was still in high school, learning CommonLISP from his AI book.

    Every time I am sitting in the audience of a talk where someone uses overcrowded PowerPoint slides with small fonts and goes through tables of numbers that no-one in the audience can read, mumbling quietly or rushing nervously through their material, long having lost most of the audience, I feel like sending the presenters the link to this timeless masterpiece (happens at least a few dozen times per year).

    It has also made me a better teacher in the lecture hall, and appreciate using chalk more, and slides less.

    This clip is worth watching again every couple of years, which I do, out of enjoyment and to refresh my memory (reminds me I still need to procure some cool props for my upcoming AI1 lecture in October...).

  • echelon_musk1d

    > Your success in life will be determined largely by your ability to speak, your ability to write and the quality of your ideas, in that order.

    Ah, the good old days.

    • aklemm1d

      It may become even MORE true when AI’s influence is fully apparent.

    • OutOfHere1d

      The statement completely overlooks the importance of the ability to listen, to seek clarification. Speaking is important, but listening, soliciting opinion, and incorporating varied perspectives are underrated.

      • theelous39h

        Look around you. How many of the prominent people you know got there by listening and humbly soliciting opinions? lol

  • HPsquared2d

    His "humans have only one language processor" point has really stuck with me after watching this a few years ago. It's so true.

    • evrimoztamur2d

      I feel like (or thought that) I had the ability to listen and read at the same time, until I heard that line, and it hit me like a bag of bricks. I absolutely cannot read and listen simultaneously! I can type and listen on the other hand, although it feels like I buffer the keystrokes than consciously typing out new sentences...

  • alister1d

    Patrick Winston also wrote a book about presentation and communication: Make It Clear: Speak and Write to Persuade and Inform. It was published a year after he passed away.

    https://www.amazon.com/Make-Clear-Speak-Persuade-Inform/dp/0...

  • jaccola2d

    He says not to start with a joke, but he delivers this line as a joke (and the class laughs). So now I don't know whether to start with a joke or not!

    Phenomenal talk.

    • ot2d

      The joke is almost 5 minutes into the talk: he didn't start with one. His point is that in the first few minutes the audience is still warming up and many wouldn't pay attention to the joke.

      • jweir2d

        Nothing worse than starting off a talk and bombing.

  • jader20118h

    I'm slowly figuring out that these types of non-interactive, live presentations are unnecessary.

    If I'm going to listen a someone speak without me being able to respond/interact/have a conversation with them, it can be recorded and I can watch it whenever is convenient for me.

    I feel this way with work presentations too -- record them, and let me watch them anytime. Don't make me sit and listen to someone (or a group of people) give a lecture, so that I have to follow along live.

    If I'm watching a recording, there's a far greater chance that I'll actually absorb the content, as a) it'll be during a time that works for me, not some arbitrary scheduled time that may or may not interrupt other things that are distracting me from the presentation, b) I'll be able to rewind if -- no, when -- I zone out for a minute, and c) I can skip/speed up the parts that aren't as relevant to me.

    I wish we would move away from these live lectures/presentations, and more to async/recorded sessions.

    (As a bonus, it also makes the speaking/presenting side easier, as it can be edited, if desired.)

    • atyp318h

      > I feel this way with work presentations too -- record them, and let me watch them anytime. Don't make me sit and listen to someone (or a group of people) give a lecture, so that I have to follow along live.

      Agreed. The company I work at(major scheduling company starts with a C) uses Loom a lot and it made 3 months of onboarding training much less painful.

    • anonu15h

      should we just get rid of universities as well? most of what they offer is exactly what you describe "live non-interactive presentations"

      I think theres value to being together in a room. Even if its perceived one-way communication.

      • jader20114h

        If the only value to universities is to have someone give a lecture with zero interaction, then yes, have university education happen over recordings.

        But most university professors (hopefully) engage with students, allow discussion/questions, and offer assistance, even if outside of class.

        But if professors never speak to students, and students aren’t allowed to engage with each other, then yes, there is (almost) zero reason to have everyone sitting in the room together.

        And if professors are doing this over VC, again with zero opportunity to engage with the professor/other students, then send out recordings/other async forms of instruction.

  • mad441d

    I had summarized this talk here: https://muratbuffalo.blogspot.com/2020/01/how-to-speak-by-pa...

    And a couple more pearls from Prof. Winston here as well. https://muratbuffalo.blogspot.com/search?q=winston

  • thebeardisred2d

    I've watched this video a number of times over the years. It's highly recommended.

  • andrewrn1d

    It's quite rare that I start a 1 hr long youtube video and watch it all the way through at 1x speed without getting distracted. The ideas in this talk sell themselves.

  • CommPhD1d

    As a Communication PhD, this video is better than an intro to public speaking course I taught as a graduate student at a top public university.

    • theelous39h

      Famous communications lecturer at most prestigious school on earth beats grad student from public college at teaching. Wow wa we wa high praise indeed.

  • vahid4m1d

    I initially didn’t remember but as soon as he started writing I remembered him. He is the reason I write in all caps on the paper. I watched his AI course like 10 years ago or so and learned a lot! I thought he looked familiar but just because I initially thought this is a different type of course I just didn’t think of that AI course.

    I read in the comments that he is passed away, god bless him.

  • aeternum1d

    Maybe it's just me but I found it hard to follow and not very engaging. He doesn't seem to come across as an excellent speaker in this.

    • giosalinas1d

      +1, found some good ideas here and there but that's it. For a "how to speak" lecture I was expecting a great speaker to present the ideas.

  • anonu1d

    The pinned link regarding his work and remembrances in YouTube has link rot.

    Thankful I could learn a bit more about him here: https://web.archive.org/web/20220707071624/https://www.memor...

  • mehulashah1d

    I took 6.034 from Winston and still have the lecture notes and book. Though dated, they remind me of what was great about MIT. The constant change, upheaval, search for scientific truth, and desire to help humankind. RIP Patrick Winston.

  • cisolarix1d

    We're so lucky we get to watch stuff like this for free these days.

  • gdiamos2d

    I had to rewatch his point about stage fright at the end several times before I finally got it

  • dustingetz2d

    endorse this watch for developing leaders

    • 621d

      I agree

  • 1d
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  • MeteorMarc2d

    His high breathing is unnerving, though it could be caused by some lung condition.

    • bargainbin1d

      He died about a year after this in his sleep. They never publicly disclosed the reason.

    • GLdRH2d

      It's caused by his weight. The video is very much worth it though.

      • wanderingstan1d

        I’ve known many people caring more weight that speak without issues. Are you speculating?

      • flappyeagle19h

        How on earth would you know? Foh

  • anal_reactor1d

    I can't really bring myself to watch recordings of speeches. I feel like, when you're making an actual speech or lecture, you benefit from slower pace because the audience can't rewind in case they miss something, probably they have lots of distractions, not to mention being physically uncomfortable in a slight but annoying manner for one reason or another. Meanwhile when making video content or even a podcast, it's better to be fast-paced, because there's a decent chance you have the audience's full undivided attention in a place where they feel most comfortable with zero distractions (sofa at night with maximum brightness TV), and even if they miss something, they can rewind, or pause, or whatever.

  • sandspar1d

    I like how his talk involves lots of "nesting". (Not sure the correct word for it.) Like, he sets something up then pays it off 5 minutes later. He makes me think of a watchmaker.

  • fuzztester1d

    warning :)

    i thought the standard (mba presentation) format was something like:

    tell em what youre goin to tell em (intro)

    tell em what you said youll tell em (body)

    tell em what you told em (outro)

  • journal1d

    does anyone else copy-paste the entire thread into LLM and ask for a one paragraph summary of the thread with most extreme points of view?

  • 2d
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